A mix of Punt e Mes and dry vermouth is very nice, adds bitter complexity, and tames the sweetness a bit. An improvement IMO.

I've been experimenting with different combos, looking to make a batch to put into a small (2 litre) charred oak keg for aging. My current combo consists of Old Overholt rye, Carpano Antica, Couvoisier VS, with the requisite herbals and bitters. Tonight, I tried a version using "house bitters" my wife brewed up (recipe courtesy of Brad Parson's "Bitters" book)...they're a little more earthy, dark, and less spicy than Angostura, and I think it allows the Benedictine's herbalness to cut through a bit. I also err on the shy side of the Benedictine and vermouth, preferring a little more bite to my drink. I think I'm getting close...just finished the first one, and I'm going to make a second, but using a stronger rye (Redemption? Don't know...wish I had my trusty handle of Beam Rye, but it disappeared during the holidays...).

Love this site...keep drinking, my friends.

Works wonders with Rittenhouse, Linie, Professore Vermouth, Benedictine, Ango and Peach Bitters! 

Tried it with five year old Zuidam genever instead of the rye, but the genever got lost and the drink needs that rye, I think. 

Just not my thing but tbf neither is a manhattan

I like it with Grassotti vermouth, which has a distinct bitter component that helps keep things from being too sweet. I also go with three shakes of Peychaud's and one of Ango, as someone else mentioned. This is just a great drink.

Shift to Punt e Mes, and maybe only 0.75 oz

Although the year currently listed for the Vieux Carre is 1938, the first printing of the book that contained it was in 1937 and the drink was perhaps several years older. Per Wayne Curtis of Tale of the Cocktail Foundation, it was created after prohibition ended, to compete with the Sazerac.

The volumes in the recipe in the book were half of what we use now, but the proportions were the same. For some reason Ted Haigh cut the Benedictine in half in the recipe he published. He seems to prefer drier cocktails, and the Benedictine is somewhat responsible for adjusting the sweetness of the drink. One might experiment with the variety/brand cognac used or the vermouth to adjust sweetness instead.

Made with Wild Turkey 101 rye and Dolin Rouge. Did not find it too sweet but it did benefit from a tiny lemon peel twisted over and discarded. Would be a good one for experimenting with different bitters.

I like it with half aperol, half campari; with this change it is 5/5 stars for me

My friend Hugh summed it up, "This is everything a Cosmopolitan wants to be and everything it isn't."

Made it with cynar substituting for the campari and got a seriously good drink. I used Berkeley Square as the gin, which is quite herbal, so between that and the cynar this probably ended up significantly more herbal than the original recipe intends but it worked really well.

I have finally found something nice with Campari in! Really like this drink and the flavour pairing in it. Delightful!

Glad you like this. It is a favorite of mine for when I have a bottle of St Germaine open. You might also try a touch of Campari added to a Pegu Club. This was a drink that got my wife to like Campari.

Delicious. Tried with half Campari, half Aperol per the suggestion below and it's quite good. Lovely pink color and just slightly bitter. Very appealing.

I really agree w/ the rest of the commentators here: 50/50 on the campari & aperol. Awesome drink! So do we call that substitution a Bitter Elder #2?

For the bitter lover, the Bitter Elder works brilliantly using the inverted amaro template:
2 oz Campari
1 oz gin (ideally overproof & high juniper)
1/2 oz Elderflower liqueur
3/4 oz lemon (or lime)

Made this with half Cynar/half Luxardo Bitter in place of the Campari.
Holy crap was that good.

Here's my take on this drink using the Campari/Aperol combo..

Lovely rose pink color with a very, very light nose that is gin forward with a touch of fruit sweetness from the Campari and Aperol - I’m somewhat stunned to not smell any of the St. Germaine. Sip is sweet and St. Germaine dominant on the front of the tongue while the midpalate sees the gin and its juniper notes come out immediately followed by the grapefruit-like bitterness from the Campari and Aperol. The back of the tongue and the swallow see that grapefruit profile grow stronger as the tart lemon juice develops. Amidst all these flavors the St. Germaine still darts in and out providing consistent sweet honey and lychee notes. The finish is pretty bitter with the most immediate flavor comparison being grapefruit juice with a hint of juniper and a good deal of elderflower. All in all, the grapefruit juice comparison is the most telling. Let’s say you were serving a customer at a bar and were thinking of something interesting to do for them with St. Germaine, or even trying to guide someone into drinking gin, and you asked them if they liked grapefruit juice, and they said yes, then you would no doubt have great success with this drink, however, if they say they don’t like grapefruit juice, then the chances are they will hate this drink.

Chowhound's StriperGuy recommends:

2 oz Mt Gay amber
1 oz Cruzan blackstrap
3/4 oz Triple Sec (Bols, or other orange liqueur
1 oz lime (juice of one lime)
1/2 oz Luxardo Amaretto
1/2 oz Orgeat

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/807279#6822435

Matt Robold (Rumdood) surveyed a number of combinations here: http://rumdood.com/2009/01/26/a-month-of-mai-tais/

Here's a vote for the RumDood method: 1 oz each light and dark rum, 3/4 lime, 1/2 oz each Clement Creole Shrubb and Orgeat, 1/4 oz simple, shake, strain over crushed ice, garnish with a spent lime shell and mint. I used Smith & Cross and St. James Hors d'Age.

I think the main problem with Tiki drinks is that they all serve as dump buckets for every crazy flavored syrup in the repertiore - falernum, orgeat, grenadine, curacao, Pimiento Dram... they all go in, and it ends up being a messy drink without discernable flavors.

Thanks,

Zachary

Grenadine? Falernum? Light rum? Dark rum float? No curacao?
I think the current accepted standard recipe is 2oz of rum (both dark or amber, and of different styles in order to make for a more dynamic flavor), 1oz of lime juice, 1/2oz orange curacao, 1/4oz orgeat, 1/4oz simple syrup. Garnished with half a spent lime and a mint sprig.
Personally I double the orgeat, skip the simple syrup, and add a dash of Angostura. But I wouldn't put that in the recipe.

Bingo. You're absolutely right. The previous recipe was a train wreck. Updated to the 1972 Trader Vic's recipe, which is a close approximation to the original, given that the origin 17 year old J Wrap Jamaican rum is no longer available. Thanks for pointing this out.

After fixing this recipe, I merged two nearly identical recipes into this one (previously known as Mai Tai 2 and Mai Tai - Original Version). I hope everyone approves!

Shouldn't it be 1944 rather than 1972?

Adam,

The original 1944 recipe called for the legendary and impossible to obtain J. Wray 17 year old rum, and was designed to highlight that ingredient. The 1972 version referenced here uses an ounce of two different rums to try and approximate the flavor of the J. Wray.

Thanks,

Zachary

Perhaps the drink was originally created to highlight the J. Wray 17, but the rest of the formula is the same. I would argue that it's the same drink as long as it uses the same ingredients -- two ounces of some kind of rum -- and the same basic ratio.
Regardless of your feeling on that, where did you come up with 1972? That seems way too recent. For reference, see page 162 of Jeff Berry's "Sippin' Safari," which lists the same recipe, "as served at Trader Vic's in Havana, Cuba, 1958." Which is not to say that the formula was invented that late. Vic Bergeron apparently exhausted the supply of J. Wray 17 within a couple of years after creating the drink, so this two-rum formula was probably created in the late '40s.

Adam,

The link is under the reference section of the cocktail - it's a Wikibooks page that cites the original, then the 1972 update (which removed the J. Wray, added St. James Amber, and unspecified the brands of Curacao, simple, and orgeat).

Thanks,

Zachary

jamaican rum should be appleton v/x
rhum agricole should be Clement VSOP
other than that it is good to go - personally i prefer juice of half a lime, but if using key lime i would use 3/4 oz

The variation we have tried is:

2 oz Applejack (or calvados)
1/2 oz Sweet vermouth, Carpano Antica
1/2 oz Sweet vermouth, Cinzano
1 ds Peychaud's bitters
Lemon twist garnish

Improved attribution.

Slight tweak to this cocktail to be published in Diffords #10 (see <a href="http://www.diffordsguide.com/class-magazine/read-online/en/2011-09-13/p…;).

More rye, less benedictine and the balance of bitters/absinthe changed.

A favorite. I use a Herbsaint rinse and Punt e Mes vermouth.

—-

Curated slightly: Changed gin from gin (old tom or plymouth) to Old Tom Gin. Added history, creator, and date.

Has anyone ever had a ramos with Ransom? Seems like it would be pretty strange...

Nope, but agree that it would be a kinda odd use of Ransom. Love Ransom, but wouldn't substitute it for dry gin in a Ramos Gin Fizz.

Hmm.... It wasn't really until 1910 that sales of Old Tom and London Dry gin (which only became possible with the column still) were equivalent in the US, and the 20's before London Dry really began to dominate the market. The article on Hayman's Old Tom on the Haus Alpenz website mentions that Old Tom was used in the Ramos. 

Next time I'm somewhere I can have a decent drink, I'll have them make me a Hayman's Ramos Gin Fizz and we'll see ;) 

Thanks,

Zachary

Chris at 1022 South makes a delicious derivative of this drink using Cognac and Creme de Violette instead of gin and simple syrup, finished with a little rose cordial

So per Rob Marais' request, I did something neat last night with the Ramos -- ran it through an ISI whipper. Here's how I did it. First, batch everything except the egg white, bitters and the soda (we're not using it) and put it in the refrigerator to get as cold as you can get it. When it's cold, in your shaker, add 2 teaspoons additional lemon juice, 1/4 oz water, the egg white, and the spring off a Hawthorne strainer and dry shake the egg white until it's foamy. The water aids in foaming, the acid stabilizes foam, and the spring acts like a whisk. Remove the spring, and add all the pre-batched stuff and another 1/2 oz water, fill the shaker with ice, and shake like hell for 30 seconds. Remember, you're adding all this extra water to make up for lack of melt and cooling! Strain this into an ISI whipper, charge with 1 charge of nitrous, and shake for 30 seconds. Dispense the foamed Ramos into a 10 oz. Collins glass (you should have some left over), and garnish with bitters. You're going to need a straw for this one -- as the liquid phase separates from the bubbles, it can be drunk off the bottom, but trying to drink this without a straw is asking for trouble, and a foam moustache.

Zach, I thank you. I can't wait to make this "lazy man's" Ramos Gin Fizz in an ISI. Right now, I'm thinking Saturday morning at 10 a.m. might be optimal!

Not having any Old Tom handy, I've been making these sacrilegiously with about a half ounce of London Dry ('m low) and 3/4 ounce each El Dorado 3 year and Delord white Armagnac. The rum and especially the brandy play very well with the creamsicle-y flavor of the orange flower water and cream. Worth a shot if you've got 'em and if you've already had the Ramos the right way. If you haven't, get on that: this is a justified classic, the kind of delicious and refreshing cocktail that everyone can love, and that includes gin-phobes and the "fruity, not too strong" crowd.

A hand-held blender (Braun) works well for the dry shake. 1/2 oz orgeat and 1/2 oz simple syrup adds a little flavor.

Add the cream after the dry shake. This will allow the other ingredients to foam up as quickly and beautifully as in any other non-dairy egg white sour. Shake it again with cream and ice, and very slowly top off the drink with the freshest soda water you have, pausing to let it settle, and then adding more to foam a cloud of foam above the rim of the glass. Don't mar the presentation with straws or garnishes of any kind. Bask and enjoy.

Made it with Deanston unfiltered 92 proof, beautifully balanced cocktail, this one goes into the rotation...

Delicious and beautifully balanced. Neither overly bitter not overly sweet but full of depth and interest. The Cynar and dry vermouth are great partners and draw out flavor from the Scotch (I used Auchentoshan 3 Wood). The elderflower liqueur is surprisingly subtle.

Against better judgement, I made this with Islay scotch (only 80 proof, to boot). Kind of a smoky mess. I shall be patient and wait until I have something more like the Balvenie 15 to try again...

Very nice! I used Famous Grouse that I had on hand and it worked well (will have to try with Balvenie). I also tried a version with 1.5 oz of the Grouse, everything else remaining unchanged, and it actually seemed to bump up the presence of all the ingredients and increase the depth along with the extra boozy bonus. Someone should try this with the Balvenie 15 and see if it has the same effect.

Hits it. Every note is there and yet it is bigger than the sum of its parts. If it went anymore in two directions it would split apart, but it doesn’t.

Previous commenter really missed a good experience by not using creme de fraise. 4.5 stars for me.